Dead ball or not

[jomatiky]

Last at bat due to time limit and home team is losing 3-2. Runners on 1st & 2nd with 1 out. Batter grounds to 2nd and is thrown out at 1st as tying run scores. 1st baseman throws to 3rd and ball gets away from 3rd baseman and is heading out of bounds. Left fielder backs up 3rd but can't stop and slides out of bounds with half her body OOB and the ball still in bounds in her glove. What is the call and what is the ruling. The ump ruled it OOB and scored the winning run.

[britinmuc]

1.01 Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.

-fielder exited the enclosed area as depicted in 1.01 - can't be that good

5.10 The ball becomes dead when an umpire calls “Time.” The umpire-in-chief shall call “Time”—
(f) When a fielder, after catching a fly ball, falls into a bench or stand, or falls across ropes into a crowd when spectators are on the field. As pertains to runners, the provisions of 7.04(c) shall prevail.
If a fielder after making a catch steps into a bench, but does not fall, the ball is in play and runners may advance at their own peril.

-did fielder "fall"?
personally i think the word "fall" is very ambiguous - could apply (according to the dictionary) to nearly all cases i would think
was he in control? - no - then he "fell"

7.04 Each runner, other than the batter, may without liability to be put out, advance one base when—
(c) A fielder, after catching a fly ball, falls into a bench or stand, or falls across ropes into a crowd when spectators are on the field;

i always try to think of the playable area of the diamond as a a safe haven surrounded by piranha infested waters. if he catches the ball on the safe haven - everything is good - if he "carries" it into the piranhas - they got him and the ball - no further play possible - dish out awards

i suppose your question is relating to the position of fielder/ball.
Hmm if the piranhas got his legs, he aint going to be throwing a ball in my books

[jomatiky]

britinmuc ... Softball not baseball

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by jomatiky

Last at bat due to time limit and home team is losing 3-2. Runners on 1st & 2nd with 1 out. Batter grounds to 2nd and is thrown out at 1st as tying run scores. 1st baseman throws to 3rd and ball gets away from 3rd baseman and is heading out of bounds. Left fielder backs up 3rd but can't stop and slides out of bounds with half her body OOB and the ball still in bounds in her glove. What is the call and what is the ruling. The ump ruled it OOB and scored the winning run.

When ruling on a ball being out of play the posotion of the ball is not a factor (as it is when ruling fair or foul). A ball has gone out of play when the ball touches the ground that is out of play, or the PLAYER holding the ball touches the ground that is out of play. It does not matter where the ball actually is (which side of the dead ball line) when a player is holding the ball. The determinations of the ball being out of play goes to the position of the player's feet. In softball, touching ground out of play with ONE foot puts the player and the ball she is holding a out of play.

If the either one of the player's feet holding the ball was over the line then it sounds like the umpire in your game made the right call.

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel

A ball has gone out of play when the ball touches the ground that is out of play, or the PLAYER holding the ball touches the ground that is out of play.

Rich, this only applies to balls that are in control of a fielder, correct? I believe that if a ball is thrown OOP, it's considered dead the moment it crosses the line.

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by yawetag

Rich, this only applies to balls that are in control of a fielder, correct? I believe that if a ball is thrown OOP, it's considered dead the moment it crosses the line.

NO.

Suppose there is a fly ball hit that is coming down near the DB line. The fielder is standing with both feet in play near the DB line. The fielder has to reach her arm out out full extension over the line into DB territory to catch the ball. If she catches it and pulls the ball back into LBT without stepping over the DB line then it is a legal catch and ball stay in play. The same applies to a thrown ball caught in the same manner.

So here is a situation where a ball has completely crossed the line while in flight but it never became dead. So it would not be correct to say, as you wrote, a ball is "considered dead the moment it crosses the line."

In another similar situation, suppose there is a fly ball hit that is coming down near the DB line. The fielder is leaps over the line to catch the ball. She successfull catches the ball while she is still in the air even thought her entire body is over DBT and neither foot has yet touched the ground. If she catches it and remains in control of the ball when she lands it is a legal catch. However, as soon as her foot touches DBT the ball is now out of play and dead. Runners on base would be awarded one base.

So here is another situation where a ball has completely crossed the line while in flight but did not become dead before it was able to be caught for an out. It only became dead when the fielder hold the ball touched DBT with a foot.

So it would not be correct to say, as you wrote, a ball is "considered dead the moment it crosses the line."

When a ball crosses the DB line it only becomes dead when it touches the ground, or some object in DBT, or when a fielder holding the ball touches the ground in DBT with at least one foot.

[jomatiky]

Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel

NO.

Suppose there is a fly ball hit that is coming down near the DB line. The fielder is standing with both feet in play near the DB line. The fielder has to reach her arm out out full extension over the line into DB territory to catch the ball. If she catches it and pulls the ball back into LBT without stepping over the DB line then it is a legal catch and ball stay in play. The same applies to a thrown ball caught in the same manner.

So here is a situation where a ball has completely crossed the line while in flight but it never became dead. So it would not be correct to say, as you wrote, a ball is "considered dead the moment it crosses the line."

In another similar situation, suppose there is a fly ball hit that is coming down near the DB line. The fielder is leaps over the line to catch the ball. She successfull catches the ball while she is still in the air even thought her entire body is over DBT and neither foot has yet touched the ground. If she catches it and remains in control of the ball when she lands it is a legal catch. However, as soon as her foot touches DBT the ball is now out of play and dead. Runners on base would be awarded one base.

So here is another situation where a ball has completely crossed the line while in flight but did not become dead before it was able to be caught for an out. It only became dead when the fielder hold the ball touched DBT with a foot.

So it would not be correct to say, as you wrote, a ball is "considered dead the moment it crosses the line."

When a ball crosses the DB line it only becomes dead when it touches the ground, or some object in DBT, or when a fielder holding the ball touches the ground in DBT with at least one foot.

Touche Richard