Force removed, must runner advance

[paulmckk]

R1, no outs. Ground ball to F3 who steps on first to retire BR.
R1 gets in a run down between 1st and 2nd, eventually makes it back to first where he is tagged while standing on the bag.

Is R1 out?

[captk]

I don't have a citation on this one. But the answer would be no. Once the BR has been put out, it eliminates the force and thus opens the base for R1 to return to 1b.

[heyblue26]

A runner is no longer forced (the force is "removed" when 2.00 and 7.08e

(i) Such runner has touched or passed his advance base (if such runner is beyond his advance base he is out only when tagged off base)
(ii) a trailing runner or the batter-runner is out.
(iii) he becomes out before the forced base independent of a tag or tag attempt, such as in abondoning his effort to run the bases.

Only during continuous action , the force can be removed and also reinstated.

I say the runner is not out.

Ref: J/R

[Rich_Ives]

Originally Posted by paulmckk

R1, no outs. Ground ball to F3 who steps on first to retire BR.
R1 gets in a run down between 1st and 2nd, eventually makes it back to first where he is tagged while standing on the bag.

Is R1 out?

KISS

The B/R is out.

Therefore there is no runner that R1 has to make room for.

Therefore he's not forced to advance.

[mailman16]

10u game with no lead off. ground ball to F3. R1 never steps off bag. F3 steps on bag then tags R1. BU calls both BR and R1 out stating R1 has to try to advance. being a newbie i conceded to my senior partner, though i felt he was in error. if F3 tags R1 then steps on bag we have a DP, correct?

[Ump7Tony]

If the first baseman touches the bag, then touches R1...B/R is out and R1 is not since the "force" was removed when the bag was touched first. The runner is not forced off first.
However, if R1 is not ON the bag when tagged, he would be out on a simple tag.

If the first basemen tagged R1 then the bag...double play. R1 is forced to run to second and is not protected by touching the bag.

[johnnyg08]

Correct. At the time the ball was hit into play, R1 is forced to advance, since F3 stepped on 1B first, R1 isn't forced to go anywhere. HTBT, but that could've possibly been fixed.

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by mailman16

.....R1 has to try to advance. .....

That's B.S. No such rule....

[bigbird69]

Originally Posted by Richard_Siegel

That's B.S. No such rule....

Agreed. The rules say he is forced, but it never says he has to run. It is in his/her best interests to run, but they don't have to.


Just like you don't have to get out of a path of a speeding car if you don't want to.... it is in your best interests to do it, but you don't have to if you don't want to.

[boyinr]

Saw this exact scenario this weekend at a tournament.

Only in this case the BU and the PU disagreed with each other. The PU sends the runner off the base and to the bench. The discussion/argument between the Head Coach and the umpires goes on and on until the Base Umpire and Head Coach convince the Plate Umpire that the force was removed and the runner should remain on first. At that point it gets really strange when the BU declares that even though time was "requested" by the Base Coach, he never "granted" time and the runner was out for abandonmemt of the base.

If the score was not 8-1 and with in 10 min of the time limit there would have been a major mess.

[Richard_Siegel]

Originally Posted by boyinr

Saw this exact scenario this weekend at a tournament.

Only in this case the BU and the PU disagreed with each other. The PU sends the runner off the base and to the bench. The discussion/argument between the Head Coach and the umpires goes on and on until the Base Umpire and Head Coach convince the Plate Umpire that the force was removed and the runner should remain on first. At that point it gets really strange when the BU declares that even though time was "requested" by the Base Coach, he never "granted" time and the runner was out for abandonmemt of the base.

If the score was not 8-1 and with in 10 min of the time limit there would have been a major mess.

shithouse!

[Pete_Booth]

I know you are a newbie BUT your EXACT OP is covered in rule 2 Definition of a Force - Comment Section where it talks about R1 and F3 tagging first base and the force being removed. You do not have to look far.

Pete Booth